tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2373576667268518073.post5099403050357780140..comments2023-10-30T06:03:33.469-07:00Comments on FPI (Friends of Palestinians and Israelis): Christian Approaches to the State of IsraelJohn R. Kleinheksel, Sr.http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559033716246916111noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2373576667268518073.post-56826616658603257362008-04-06T11:08:00.000-07:002008-04-06T11:08:00.000-07:00John! Good going, in adding your comments. I ...John!<BR/> Good going, in adding your comments. I went to my blog and sure enough, there are a few comments to my stuff (I haven't checked for a while).<BR/> Your points are well taken. You've put your finger on the "weakness" of his basic position, and I thank you for adding them to my blog. He is obviously an evangelical, fully aware of premill excesses, trying to reign them in (successfully? Doubtful!). <BR/> The Zionist project hopped on Western guilt in a big way, to push more of their folks than ever, on to the land. I remember the British promise to the Arabs (in that forgotten clause of the Balfour Declaration), and that they actually tried to limit Jewish immigration, in a futile effort to be evenhanded.<BR/> How can all of us admit our humanity, our culpability, and the need to address root causes of others' offense, others' grief at what has been done to them?<BR/> I'll add this note to the conversation in hopes that more people will read and become motivated to get at underlying causes, make efforts to address the complaints, and see real changes on the ground. What's it going to take, other than another Cataclysm, another war, greater will and capability (militarily) by the Arab countries (most of whom are "in bed" with the twin-headed Oppressor, who wants to maintain the status quo (for political reasons, like a seat in the House or Senate, e.g.).<BR/> John, I don't know what your comments are on my essay (about Abraham and Ephron, Genesis 23), but thanks for what you are doing to counter the heretical claims of the "Christian" Zionists among us. JRK Sr.John R. Kleinheksel, Sr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15559033716246916111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2373576667268518073.post-31700168393347883882008-04-05T21:46:00.000-07:002008-04-05T21:46:00.000-07:00Hi, John,It is an admirable attempt to find a "thi...Hi, John,<BR/><BR/>It is an admirable attempt to find a "third way", but not a very successful one. I say this to reinforce the point you make - that this third way does what has been done from the beginning of the Zionist project -- completely ignores the fact that living out this scenario meant at the best colonial arrogance (asserting the right of Europeans to create their own state on Arab land) at worst displacing hundreds of thousands -- or certainly being happy to see them go -- without acknolwedging their right to return to their homes; in fact, destroying them so they couldn't. <BR/><BR/>The point is, the injustice was built into the project from the beginning. This "third way" simply papers over this. Worse, it gives ideological sanction to it. It also fails to note several other crucial facts: 1) Zionism was a hard sell in the Jewish community for a long time and not only among the Orthodox. Jews themselves -from all branches of Judaism -- noted that the land was not necessary to define what it meant to be Jewish. 2) The holocaust is seen by this writer to be the reason why the state of Israel was created. In point of fact the Zionist project preceded this by forty years. Tensions over Jewish attempts to create their own state on Arab land had reached the boiling point long before WW II and the revelations of the camps. All this did is accelerate the project and assure the kind of world sympathy which allowed it to become a fait accompli no matter what Arab wishes were. <BR/><BR/>The point here is to say that this "third way" is only a "third way" for those who are willing to treat the Zionist project is only significants in terms of what it says to Jews as though the Palestinian part of the story is not worth mentioning. What I see is a gentleman who wishes to have his own conscience salved by having it both ways: first he pats himself on the back for showing that he is not anti-semitic (like those other bad Christians) then he pats himself on the back again for saying that he supports justice for the Palestinians (unlike those other bad Christians). Brother, you can't have it both ways. Its way too complicated for that. <BR/><BR/>From where I sit I see no way forward until the Israelis admit that what they did not only in creating the state, but in taking the refugee's land without any compensation, claiming that it is theirs either by divine fiat or by dint of their military superiority was wrong; morally wrong - a sin against the Palestinians. As long as they continue to insist that they did no wrong, that, in fact, the Palestinians are totally to blame for their own plight by refusing to accept this state that was forced upon them by a guilty west, there can be no reconciliation.<BR/><BR/>Case in point: our finally coming to grips with the wrong we did to Native Americans, the Australians to the aborigines. Not to mention South African whites (who also claimed throughout the apartheid period that they were the righteous ones). <BR/><BR/>I wish, like the writer, that ther were a simple "third way." But nothing is simple here . . .ISCZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10968460619712555871noreply@blogger.com